OK, give me some feedback on this video clip.
If you’re having any trouble / confusion with what pronation is, does this video explanation help you or just confuse you even more?
And if you’re the coach, what do I need to work on?
If you want to comment, please do so by filling out the Leave A Reply box below as opposed to email. Thanks…
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Thanks for the tip, however I do not know what grip to start with?
Start with a continental and then tinker with an in between continental and eastern backhand grip.
Brent – Grips tip series
Hey Brent,
I’ve been enjoying your articles and videos on the serve.
I agree with the whole confusing issue surrounding pronation.
I’ve told some of my students in the past to just fire up at the ball nearly as hard as they can and they will the lower arm and wrist will automatically pronate. Well, that works for some, others relate to a more systematic, visual approach such as your video demonstrations.
Keep up the good work.
Dan
Hi Brent, really clear and good video. Lots of people having trouble on this one.
In my opinion the biggest hazard is people choking the handle of the racket and as you say, no release in the wrist.
I always try to get my students to relax that grip but most common answer is they are scared to loose the racket in the swing. Any tips on this besides making sure they won’t loose the racket?
Kind regards Olav de JOng
Tenniscoach Athletic Kings, Dubai
The “death grip” slows the racket way down, inhibits natural pronation, and leads to serious elbow injuries.
Brent – Elbow Injury?
Brent,
Much clearer for me now. My ideas about pronation had turned into a different way to hit a flat serve and I was having trouble visualizaing racquet position for imparting spin. As usual, you’ve broken it down in a manner that is clear and easy to follow. Thanks for your help.
Hey Brent, I think your second serve looks fine and also is very safe for your body, especially your back. You don’t over do it ,don’t arch too much.You will stay injury free for a long time with a motion like that. I hope I can keep such a second serve in the coming years….If I may make a personnal comment here,have you considered trying that exact same serve changing from continental grip towards something a bit closer to a standard forehand shakehand grip(eastern forehand), especially when serving to the ad court(a little trickier when serving to the deuce court)…I love it !! You might have to toss a little more backwards and arch the back a tiny bit more but this has helped me get the ball popping much higher after bounce(you will actually be able to make contact with the ball more underneath it and therefore will get more loop on ball path)…it takes a little time to adapt but really,with a very loose wrist,it works wonders on that ad side.You also might want to start further away from central mark for this serve(If I remember well, Boris Becker was hitting a lot of flat powerful first serves with this shakehand grip).
Take care,
Patrick.
Boris could do lots of things that the rest of just can’t. You’re right, he had pretty much an eastern forehand grip for that serve.
As much as I loved watching him play, that grip for the serve is not something I’d suggest the rest of us try.
Brent – “The Magic Moves Of The Serve”
Hi Brent
From what I can tell working with dozens of pros over the years – there is a distinction between pronation (the turning of the wrist so that the racquet goes from on-edge from the back scratch position to flat at point of impact) and the wrist release (or wrist flick as I call it) which is used to add some top spin to a “flat serve” and even more top spin to a kick serve – in both types of serves the pronation is the same but the wrist release is different – in the direction of the ball for a “flat serve” and more to the side because of the brushing motion of the racquet in a kick serve –
If this makes things worse – please ignore LOL
I really enjoy your work
Kerry
Kerry
It seems that all of us have a slightly different way of articulating and visualizing what we do on our serves.
Kind of fascinating…
Brent – Become A WebTennis Referral Affiliate And Earn $$s From Your Referrals
Hey, thanks for trying to make it clearer. Whether a golfer, baseballer, even table tennis player… pronation is a goal for anyone needing to strike a ball. I encourage us to “dare” to pronate… “trusting” that your wrist will not break especially if you relax your grip and let the racket do the work.
Hi Brent,
Thanks for your video; it is very clear and helpful. No understanding problem. The problem is to copy your “average” 2d serve… particularly the toss that is conditioning its accuracy and its reproducibility.
Toss consistency = straight tossing arm.
Feel the ball (that’s in your hand) in your tossing shoulder as you raise your straight arm up into the serve set up position…
Brent – Tennis Serve Lesson DVD
Hello Brent!
Excellent video clip and advice.
Anyway, chapter eleven looks like you are a magician. Completely fluid motion. I think than beginner need 50 -100 hours to learn tennis serve. Maybe even more.
It is quite often that we don’t have enough time (1) for pronation. Maybe we are not aware too (2), how important is that part of tennis serve.
Have a nice day, my tennis online coach,
Regards, Emil
Hi Brent,
Thanks for another great instruction video and a very
helpful tip on the second serve pronation. This is the first complete explanation I’ve ever seen. It was so enlightening that you also pointed out the finish position of the wrist and racquet head down. I have mentioned you to a number of my tennis friends, but now I am signing up for your Web tennis.net referral program. I have been passing on a lot of your wisdom in the form of second hand free tennis lessons. I have been practicing keeping my head up and still after contact with the ball while serving just as I do on my grounstrokes. Although your tehnique was excellent on this video demonstrating pronation I noticed that you started lowering your eyes and head a little before contact. Are you going to emulate your friend who you used to demo your video on keeping the ball tossing arm up until the last possible moment and the keep your head up after contact video? It appears to me that, as I said, your serving motion looks identical to your friend’s except you lower your head a little sooner, but with excellent results? Please don’t take this as a criticism. I realize that if it isn’t broken often times don’t fix it or change it could apply.
Thanks again for all your help.
Larry
How would you adjust the motion if you wanted to hit a slow, high, lazy serve with a MASSIVE amount of topspin? Is that even possible?
I tried brushing up vigorously by using my elbow to throw the racket upwards, but that results in severe elbow strain on the follow-through (as the racket head rips forward of the hand and arm).
Brent
your racket goes from left to right, and the ball goes from right to left. If I try to do the same, my ball goes to the right. Please explain me why.
Thanks.
Hi Brent:
As usual, I appreciate the last 3 tips regarding the second serve (eye stays on the ball after contact; the tossing arm remains to the right in order to keep the position on the side; and, lastlly, to work on good wristin action pronation. As soon as the snow disappears I’ll try to get out on the court and work on all three…
Best regards,
Jeff
Dear Brent:
Pronation:
I understand just as you arrive to the ball the tennis raqueta es on its edge life a knife. Then just beofre impact, you rotate the risk clockwise. This shoudl put anti clockswise side spin on the ball. Then the other is rotate the wrist anticlockwise. this should impart clockwise spin like a slice. So if I servein into the ad court, with clockwise wrist proation, this should move the ball to right. Have I got this right??
Regards
Graham Q
Great video. I purchased the DVD a while back and I was still not sure how the racket was suppose to open up once it has hit the ball. This video clears up the questions I had.
I think this is perfectly plain. Except I find the grip is key to this. Using a backhand grip or an even an extreme backhand grip, makes all the difference in making this serve work! I find that many folks do not use a backhand grip for serves or overheads which causes problems…
I think this is perfectly plain. Except, I find the grip is key to making this work. Using a backhand grip or even an extreme backhand grip makes all the difference. I find that many recreational players do not use a backhand grip for serves or overheads which causes problems….
Hi Brent, thanks for another illustration for pronation. Good explanation, all clear, now let’s do it. Aha! I am somewhere on the learning curve… the relaxed grip – easier said than done – I have almost too loose a grip flapping around with the racket. And then this issue of coming up sideways but hitting flatter – I just cannot do it. If I come up sideways, that’s how I’ll hit the ball loosing all power. I can concentrate on turning my hand so that the impact is flatter, but I cannot understand how that should ever become a natural movement. When I see yours, sure, great stuff, should be easy. When I am out practising – oh my, I’ll never get there.
Great Video – but somewhat misleading to say “Like throwing” I’m Baseball/Softball player for 60 Years (pretty high level). As an infielder or outfielder you better not throw with anything like that motion and wrist/hand action. Your hand has to be behind the ball at release, your arm moving directly toward your target and the wrist action such that the ball goes straight except for gravity. DO NOT throw your target a curve ball.(your 1st baseman will hate you!
Of course, you can infer that I have a lot of trouble with anything other than a straight flat serve. Too much muscle memory!
Hi Brent,
I thought the video was great. I like the way you kept showing the motion over and over again and then added the stop motion shots with explanation. Excellent teaching!
I am temporary down with Achilles Tenndinitis but soon will be trying your tips out. I see you have some information on the A.T. I think I will be checking it out.
Thanks again,
Steve
I saw your pronation second service and i was wandering if you can show your wrist closer (zoom or close up), to have a better view of the movement and the timing.
By the other hand i want to thank you for all your help
Brent,
Thanks for the tip on the 2nd serve pronation. I feel like I’m pretty relaxed on the swing, but I think my toss placement may have something to do with my lack of spin. What do you think?
Mike
Yes this is helpful. I have always had a flat serve that I tried to hit too hard. I am trying to develope a constant first and second serve with accuracy and spin.
This tip is very good for illustrating what happens when you pronate. Most people don’t realize that the racket goes up to the ball edge first and then turns (pronates) counterclockwise when you snap your wrist.
Thanks again for a good tip. Congratulations, too, on your recent tournament win.
Terri
Just reviewed your serve and Johnsons. It appears you both start with your palm facing the left side line(racquet going up) ready to slice the ball. When Johnson is done his palm has turned to the right side line(pronated his wrist?)while your palm is facing the net. is that what you refer to as pronation
Is this just because his wrist turn is more pronounced then yours or because you are serving to deuce court while he is serving to the ad court.
Hi Brent,
Finally got to see what pronation is. The video was slow enough to see racquet position before, during and after ball striking. Thx loads. I’ll try it tomorrow.
Thanks again. Dan.
Yes, Brent this is a very good illustration/explanation; esp when you point out the side of the racket looks like is going to hit the ball and at finish head of the racket is pointing down. I will definitely practice later this week with these tips in mind.
Thanks,
margaret
Yeah, very nice… the relaxed wrist is the key. Often we “hit the net” despite of keeping the head up, eye on the ball, arm and racket are following through!
Why?
The wrist is too tense due wanting to hit via the shoulder and the arm, when in fact there is lot more power released from the loose swing of the body and the racket, with a snap of the wrist at the end. And you need a loose wrist to accomplish the last stage. Federer does it so well.
cheers
Peter
Hi Brent!!Andreas is back….offering abit of help!I believe pupils should put down their rackets and feel the movements!Yes, kinestics or biomechanics….I ask the righthanded player to make a fist with their lefthand,pretend they are reaching up to hold on to a thick nail.Now …with their righthand they smack up against their leftfist and create friction!After this “sliding friction” they feel the pronation of the underarm and now…..let the fingertips lead the hand(thumb down…palm towards the right)and try to turn the shoulders so that the right shoulder is facing the net!!When they have felt these sequences …now we choke the racket and do the same thing with a ball in the lefthand.This tactile approach has helped many with the “mystery of pronation”.I hope this small contribution can be of some assistance and of course for me it remains good karma.Till then…..Andreas
Hi Brent.
I am from Czech Republic. Big thank you for tips.
I try to play tennis only with my friends, but I think your video is very good help.
My problem is only – my English is not good-I do not understand any coments.
Thank you for support this nice game – tennis and vish you good health. Vladimir.
Hi Brent,
I’ve tried the pronation serve and it seems I am putting too much stress on my forearm and I am “going toward” tennis elbow. Any suggestions on how to correct this?
Thanks,
Coach B
Richard Bartlett
Ancster (Ontario) Tennis Club
Is the pronation to the right or left? The direction is difficult in the video.
Brent
Great video, as I have been having major problems with my serve. I,like others, grip the racket too tight, and I’m working to correct this. The video really explains pronation, and I will put the info to use once the weather clears in a couple of days. Thanks again
Steve
many thanks indeed, this video is very good, however still don know about the right leg motion. Its seem like how Taylor Dent doing the serve.
Thanks, Brent.
However, implied by the title, “Second Serve Pronation” is idea that pronation is different for the first and second serves. How would you explain and demonstrate that difference?
Hey Brent,
This is confusing to me….I hit my serve almost like a slice, coming around the ball on the opposite side. When I try this other serve, I can’t get ‘anything’ on the ball. It usually goes in the net or to the right….any help would be appreciated!
Hello again from Edmonton, Brent! I very much appreciate your pronation video and the still photo sequence. I, too, find it rather fascinating how we each articulate tennis theory and technique differently. I am concurrently studying material from your buddy, Jim Mclennan.
I think Jim tends to say that early pronation results in a more flat hit, and later pronation results in more spin. Jim puts a lot of emphasis on developing good rhythm and timing: 1,2,3 sequence.
My second serve is coming along: I like to use the words: “loose”, “straight”, and “up” as my 1,2,3. [ie. loose grip, straight arm toss, and hit up whilst trying to remain sideways!] Maybe I’ll send you a video of my serving attempts when it looks half-decent! Thanks for all your help so far — Philip.
Another winning tip Brent.
Im a kinda beefy guy so I have this habit
of trying to bulldoze my opponent by smashing
at the serve and running to the net.
Needless to say, my percentage of “kills” is
frustrating. This second(probably the 1st too)
is one of finesse and allows for more control/placement.
ps: Percentage-wise, where do you recommend the best
court position when delivering the serve ?
I Imagine there are pros and cons for each
standing position but, overall ?
To me, standing at the “T” gives the shortest
distance to the net for an approach. Then again
. . . . . . . .(?)
Thanks for the serving tip–one thing I did not understand or see was the 7 o’clock to 1 o’clock rotation-how do you do that while getting power to move the ball forward as well? Thanks for your help.
Vic Braden was the first I heard mention the pronation of the hitting arm, back in 1977, as opposed to just snapping of the wrist, as most teachers teach. Your video makes it much more clear as to the difference. I’ve been tring to explain this to teachers for years and I can tell you that most don’t get it. Most teachers don’t understant the continuous loop the raquet makes either on an ideal serve. You could make another video on that component of the serve as well. Keep up the good work.