Ok, well done. Thanks for all of the great comments that were left from last Tuesday’s “Question” segment video.
Here’s the follow up “Answer” segment video for “WTRS?” Episode #20.
This is a really important court positioning strategy for becoming much better doubles player.
Here’s what I mean …
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no video attached
Morning Allan. Apologies …
It’s now fixed.
Brent
Your “pal’s” were somewhat brutal on you (in a funny sorta way) in the last segment when the video was not attached. Looking forward to the next round of commentary. (I’m laughing as I write this).
Hey Patrick.
Gotta have a bit of a thick skin now and then
Brent
tee hee
Pman …
Help me bro
Brent
does this mean there is no right answer?
Haha …
Beautiful!
B-
When you get to be our age it gets harder to play tennis and post videos successfully at the same time! Hope the tennis is going better than the posting.
Hey Sam.
Right. Keep it simple. Just like in tennis, gotta stop this multi tasking
Brent
oops
Yeah …
Guess this stuff happens.
Brent
By the way guys, Chris Morgan and I play our 1st round 60s dubs match this afternoon at noon here today at the Mission Hills CC in Rancho Mirage and Mai and I play right after in our 1st round Mixed doubles match.
Tournament draws – http://bit.ly/WhZ8pf
If you’ve never played this tournament, the Babolat National Seniors tournament, this has got to be one of those things you do for your tennis game.
All I can see is you just gotta get out here in 2014. You’ll love the experience …
Brent
HI Brent,
Great video, and your point about not backing up when you recognize your opponent has a high backhand volley, and cant’ do much with the shot is valid, and comes with experience as a player obtains shot recognition, and is able to anticipate the next shot. I would like to bring out something about the player hitting the winning volley. Although it was a winning shot I believe the better shot would have been going the other way and hitting an inside out forehand volley for the winner. The volley was an inside volley and was hit the the outside of court. If the opponent was able to get a racquet on it that shot would have been trouble since the down the line shot would have been exposed. I’m a big advocate of taking that inside volley either down the middle or inside out so that my partner can front the ball. Just a percentage tennis play in my opinion. Good luck with your matches today. Rich
Good feedback Rich.
No question that going to Phil’s alley can be a risk, but you’re right, Bill is an experienced player, and he was able to calculate his volley skill along with the chances of Phil being able to get over there and do soe damage IF Bill didn’t hit a winner.
The other way of thinking about it is this – can Bill (you) hit that volley with footwork that carries hom to his left so that he can cover up his alley if Phil gets over there …
Brent
My philosophy on lobs is about the only time you have both the need and the time to back up is when the lob is both short and high. Am I off base here?
You’re right on Don.
In fact, I like to look back at my partner (yeah, I know, lots of thought about never looking back) to see what they’re doing, and if that lob is short, I can see that immediately and then take a step or two back to try and defend.
But if I look back at my partner’s lib and see right away that it’s going to be tough for my opponents, then I also know right away to get ready to take advantage …
Brent
First time I read about never looking back I returned about 6 balls with reflex volleys. That made a believer out of me, but not a practicer, too tempting to check out lines and partner’s shot.
Morning Don.
It’s one of those things that you have to figure out what works best for you.
Sounds like that’s exactly what you’ve done. Well done and right, get out there and practice it
Brent
Actually, I watched the first vid on the YouTube feed, but I wanted to leave a comment here instead — one day led to another, and here we are.
But I have been able to watch some of the matches at the AO, including the incomparable Bryan Bros. in their semifinal. It was great to watch them and their opponents just keep making the right shot, not going for winners, not trying to end the point with one swing when the time had not come, just steadily making the right play. And not thinking they had failed when the point did go against them.
Good stuff Robert.
The Bryan Bros can teach us all a lot about about the mental skills required to be a great doubles player and a great team.
Total support of your partner – doubles is all about playing FOR your partner (thanks to Joel Drucker for that wisdom), not only with the mental support, but also with your shot selections …
Brent
This looked like a designed play. Paul takes a short ball on the forehand side and lobs it. I rarely play with partners that would lob a forehand from that position (maybe it’s because many of them are younger and enjoy ripping it). Normally, they’d only lob a forehand when pushed back.
Well, I don’t know if this was a designed play or not, but it ought to be. And if you and your partner know that you’re lobbing to a high backhand overhead, you can both be in the position to put away the return.
Pretty insightful. I’ve only seen Paul Wulf play via Brent’s videos, but you don’t stay rated 5.0 at his age unless yer an absolute wizard – which I strongly suspect he *is*. He even hit that lob off the wrong foot, but I’m certain that he knew (and expected to) place it perfectly, *and* somehow knew that he had frozen Brian into anticipating a down the line reply. And *then*, merely “walking” in behind the lob suggests that he already strongly suspected that Bill was going to dink a volley over into the alley with Phil still trying to recover from his “stab”. Heinous.
Morning KB. Have seen Hugh Thomson all week. Talk about heinous, now that guy can make you look really bad in doubles with sheer shot placement.
You nailed it with your description of deception.
This level of tennisis mostly about false advertising – always making your opponents have to consider at least two options that you might play as your next shot.
Get your butt out here for next year’s 2014 Babolat …
Brent
Won’t likely be seeing *my* butt on them hard courts, but *am* trying to talk the little wifey into trying those 120′s Grass Courts – even if she *won’t* mind very well during the matches.
Sounds like a most fun experience. . .
And, I’m *still* scratching my head over the time Hugh rolled a dipper in front of me with that continental grip. Heinous, indeed.
What’s more likely is that as the match progressed, Paul sensed that Phil was closing in more and more and Paul decided to lob to take advantage of that court positioning by Phil.
Brent
Although I was joking before, there really isn’t a good shot to hit off that lob, is there?. Maybe the best bet would have been to hit a high defensive lob with the bh overhead/volley and gain some recovery time, then regroup to play defense, or at least loop the ball back deep in the deuce court player’s direction. what do you think?
On Tuesday you posted the first part and stopped the video before it was clear how deep that lob was going. I couldn’t tell how offensive an opportunity the next shot could be. With this video, when you stop with the ball close to racquet contact, it is very clear that the bh volleyer is just trying to save the point and has no chance to play any sort of ‘effective’ shot.
It is likely that the stopping point in the Tuesday video is about where the team that hit the ball has to make their decision – unfortunately for us, they can better judge the effect of their shot at that point than we can – for us, the ball is out of the frame, we are looking at a 2D video and can’t ‘see’ the depth of the shot, pace, etc. So we have a bit of a disadvantage there.
Morning MD …
When I have to deal with that high backhand volley in Phil’s situation, I think of those 2 things – what shot can I play that will buy me the most time to regroup that won’t give them an automatic put away opportunity.
When we get into trouble out there as Phil was, we tend to think too much that we’ve got to do something spectacular.
We don’t. Play a shot that is neutral that buys time …
Brent
Hi Brent,
What I’m struck by is how none of these guys are playing with a lot of power – the pace doesn’t look beyond what a lot of 4.0 players typically generate. But they are playing with tremendous precision. Each shot is really well executed. The serve lands in the corner of the box; the return is a low slice; the half-volley pickup is not popped up; the lob is almost perfectly placed and forces a full stretch backhand overhead, which is still well done; and finally the winning volley is placed perfectly to give no play on the ball. It seems the moral of the story, beyond your great lesson on positioning, is for us old guys to work to be able to hit the entire spectrum of shots precisely and consistently if we want to raise our level.
Cheers,
Richard
Hi Richard.
The video is deceiving. Believe me when I say that all of these guys bring power that is consistently above 4.0.
But you’re right about their accuracy. That’s what top players do well.
Good doubles is first and foremost about just that – playing shots to specific places on the court that create problems.
Sheer power can create problems, but the big problem with power is consistency.
I play against the younger guys in 10.0 mixed, and they’ve got the big serve, the big forehand, and so on, BUT, their lack of consistency hurts them.
So does their power at times because shots that should be played down low are hit with too much pace and stay up for an easier volley.
So Richard, yes, you’re right, this entire “What’s The Right Shot?” series is an opportunity for me to teach and you to learn exactly that, here’s the right shot to play to a specific place on their court that will create the most problems for them …
Good feedback Richard. Thanks …
Brent
I agree that this is a bigger deal than we realize. Some of the training materials out there seem to encourage an automatic retreat by the net player when a lob goes up and a lot of my fellow players think similarly along these lines. This partially conforms with the fact that deep to short hits are not uncommon with occasional lobbers and at the soc/rec level, which leads to some of the pressure to avoid lobs and to automatically back up in expectation of a killer overhead (which didn’t happen in your example).
I think it is important to mix lobs in regularly with the other shots to maintain ones confidence and ability to avoid hitting most deep to short lobs…not just waiting until you are forced into it.
Also, the key, I believe, is to focus more on the situation as it develops and less at strictly focusing on the ball. By the time you find the ball, the situation leaves you wanting if you are not paying attention and having made your court adjustment. Certainly, when the opponent finds the ball, I need to split step and be ready as the next shot is hit. Players not situationally aware seem to get caught a bit behind the situation.
A good example seems to be when covering down the center of the court. Often players are a step behind, having failed to see the situation and move to cover the center, instead caught with dead feet letting the hitter get off his shot first.
I think your general advise, which is to play doubles correctly as much as you can in whatever situation you find yourself (hoping I have not mischaracterized that) is good advice. If you use just your current skills and have a partner who is playing pretty much on their own and therefore out of sync with you, the probability still tilts in your favor trying to do the right things on your own.
Great call RS on mixing your shots during the match within the same situation as this video illustrates.
Once you become predictable, no matter how much power you bring, you lose the advantage …
Brent
In summary, when my partner has the ball crosscourt from me, I find that just about all I need to know I get from watching the reactions of my opponents. That way I can get a jump on adjusting or not adjusting my court position. Certainly, ignoring that and waiting for one of them to start their stroke and pick up the ball with my eyes at that time slows down if not eliminates any advantageous court positioning adjustments on my part or worse, I fail to split step trying to adjust my court position, when it is time to split step and get into balance.
I think the net player on the team being lobbed should have considered crossing to the left side as we are viewing the court. If the ball had been a couple of feet farther to the right he certainly should have crossed. The momentum of the player covering the lob is carrying him to the right and he is having to play a backhand overhead volley which means after striking the ball he will be facing the right (as we view the court) and have his momentum to the right. The net player crossing could cover the short ball the volleyer plays. If the volleying player sees his movement and realizes the shot he actually plays will be covered, he will have to change his shot in mid stroke which is always difficult. Obviously with a short softly hit ball to the net player, the defenders will not be able to cover the entire court but I think the odds are better if you take away the most obvious and easiest shot and make the volleyer try to adjust.
Morning Al.
Right, there’s not a great solution here for Phil and Brian.
Paul’s played the perfect lob where Brian cannot quickly cross into the middle and take it as an overhead.
Brian may have been thinking the lob was going over him and started to prepare for that. Don’t know …
Brent
Hi Brent
Whose shot is it if Paul had move forward after he lobbed and Phil lobbed back over Paul’s partner head. Now they are both at the net and the ball lands behind Paul’s partner high and deep? Should Paul run back to take it?
Thanks for your input…… Adam
Hey Adam.
With Bill holding his net position, and the ball being cross court from Paul, Paul has to cover any lob that is deep over Bill’s head.
So, Paul can move forward, BUT, he’s got to be ready for that possibility, a high lob over Bill.
When you’re cross court from the ball, and your partner is up inside the service line, right, you’ve got a lot of court to cover.
Brent
If the lob had been a little bit shorter the guy staying at the nett would have got the ball in his mouth.If he had backed up and the ball came in short as it did could he not have moved forward and put the ball away therefore covering both eventualities.
Quick question.In an era of great coloured tennis gear why is everyone wearing white?
Harry
Adelaide
I disagree Harry. Even if the lob had been shorter AND Phil had taken it as a high backhand volley, you don’t want to back up.
All white? That’s what I do. I just like the look. Makes me feel better out there
Brent
I think the server is way too nice here!
He has serveral opportunities to challenge the contenders before the video stops.
1. On his second shot, the half-volley, a better shot would be to lob over the net guy, as long as possible and with speed, flack as possible without risking that the net man can kill it, but will pass safely over him and into the court, and directed to contenders backhand corner. Long and to the right (between singles and doubles line if possible) from his view.
2. If making second shot, be more alert and footwork, and move over to the left quickly, and get smash position, and easily win the point!
3. If he still doesn’t do that, and has that high backhand to play as in the video, move backwards and time the shot and jump to get a better shot position.
I would like him to do a hard shot here, a shot on pure feeling. Jump up at right time to reach the ball better and swing racket better, more space for proper swing, and lobb over the net man! As descibed in 1. but now this time a much harder shot, a shot that really puts his boll control and feel to test!
The alternative, I think would be to try to backhand smash maybee between the contenders. (also jump up) Hard to control shot, jump up and GO for it, as hard as possible, and NOT on the net guy! ( if so, the point is lost!) hoppfully you are lucky with the left-right placement, and get it between the guys! Go for it! (NOTHING to loose) Or a deep lobb, as I said! Saw one guy here suggested a high defensive lobb! Do as good lobb as you you can, and if you succeed in doing an offensive lobb, Even better! Just make sure it’s long enough, so the net guy can’t smash! And not out! Takes some ball control!
For fun, If one placed a world top player in that position, Andy Murray would have have NO problem with that shot! Easy! Which shot would he do?
Hey Hans …
Sure, we can always come up with lots of different scenarios, but let’s keep it real to what we can realistically do out there in this situation.
And OK, if Andy Murray is handling this shot, he’d be better than a 60+ year old guy …
Brent
Of course 60+ men can’t move like Andy Murray.
He has absolutely fantastic physics! (I would like to be able to move like like!)
But maybee like Bjorn Borg or John McEnroe!
Could they solve this situation? I’m talking about trying to be creative. We have to
come up with some ideas that can help these persons to sin the ball!
We all want to improve.
And if an old man try to think more like, is inspired by a younger. Why not?
My answere is regardless of age! Just thinking: What is best here? How do one do this better?
It’s always good to be optimistic, have goals. Then, we do the best we can about it!
win the ball (these
I think the contenters had been Perry amazed if the
serve receiver had lobbed on the net man, add some
action in the play!
What??
Now WE have to come up with something!
Everybody had been happy and excited!
More interesting, and would put a smile in
all the players face!
We play tennis because we love the game!
I seem to do better when instead of thinking win or losing, I think about what is the right shot based on the information I am gathering as the match progresses and the situation relative to my opponents. The good thing about Brent’s instruction is it give me more information to work with, helping me to improve my ability to scout my opponents and my doubles partners, not just improve my own game, in general.
I find it takes about the first three games in the set for me to get enough information to start reducing my opponent’s options and to start tipping the probabilities in my favor…and that is assuming we are reasonably well-matched. I find that some players try to hide their skills, strategy, and patterns during the warm-up.
As Hans says, this game can be a work of love. However, if all one cares about is winning, that I suppose it is more a burden of love and can take a hard toll on ones emotional state. Certainly, many players I know seem to only enjoy tennis when they win.
Seems like the most important court positioning is the 6 inches between my ears.
This morning I played singles against a guy who served and volleyed. He won the first three games, then I took over the match. One of the things I did was simply to lob him as he came in prematurely and drop-shoted him when he stayed back. At the end he was sweated out and I felt pretty fit.
At my level, players are often ready to run side to side, but not often ready to run forward and backwards.
If he hadn’t volleyed well, the right shot might have been different.
I would love to scout my opponents before a match, but usually I end up scouting them quite a bit in the first three games and as the match continues.