I used to (and still do from time to time) make a crucial mistake just prior to starting my tossing motion on whatever serve I was about to play.
Maybe you do as well …
Some players start their tossing motion without a specific target in mind.
They sort of see where their toss ends up and then decide what kind and where they want to serve.
That’s major trouble.
I used to commit to a serve type (flat, slice, or topspin) and direction prior to starting my service motion, but then I’d change the direction as I was tossing.
Also major trouble.
Here’s what to do instead.
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How about you? This ever happen to you? Let us know right below in the Comments area.
Thanks in advance. Brent
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I like this tip and not just for the serve.
I actually think that there is something inside of us that knows (with practice!) how to hit shots but it needs to know what shot is required. So if you go with that first instinct it gives “the something” time to prepare. If you change your mind “the something” gets confused and you make errors.
This is why fake poaching is so effective as it encourages the opponent to change their mind.
So what you also have to do is , in advance, decide your strategy so you automatically make the right shot selection with that first instinct,
Hi Paul.
No question that committing to that 1st “voice” really helps simply things out there.
I’m not sure I totally agree with your last sentence.
I’d edit it to state “decide what strategy you want to use to START the point.
You just might have to change as the point develops and/or as different opportunities are presented to you.
Brent
Brent
What I had in mind when I wrote that is I play against someone who is very active at net. On any decent reply (and sometimes on ordinary ones) he is looking to get across and poach my first volley. And he is so fast with great reach and control/power that he can get to an amazing amount of balls and put them away.
If I am dozy I see him in the corner of my eye when I have committed to going cross court and try and change direction. Big mistake as ball plops into net. So instead I pre plan to volley some at him and in his alley almost regardless of the return I am going to get. That way his movement (or lack of) becomes irrelevant to me. If he poaches and wins then great – at least he had to put it away rather than me picking it out of the net!
Hey Paul.
Ah. OK, that clears it up.
Right, if you’ve got a really good poacher up there in front of you, and remember, a good poacher isn’t always about moving, it’s actually got a lot to do with distracting your visual contact with the incoming serve, then I’d suggest a couple of early match lobs.
And I’d keep doing it until he adjusts and/or stops poaching.
YOU have to control this guy, not the other way around.
Change your mindset. You’re going to take control of the point.
Brent
Brent & Paul,
I agree with deciding beforehand where you are going to serve and sticking with it.
But it is a different issue when you are returning serve or in the middle of the point. You can’t be sure of where the ball is coming to or how high or hard. I find it best to say to myself something like – “If the serve comes comfortably to my backhand then I’ll go up the line.” But it depends on getting the right ball. It can cause lots of problems to commit to the shot beforehand find that the ball comes to an unexpected place. I think you need the flexibility (mental and physical!) to keep your options open. As long as you know what the options are.
Hey Paul, sure the following is nothing new, but…
Probably easier at my level, I can often underspin a lower, guileful as I call it, type return lob both sides, with either the forehand or backhand, then rush into the net. Their replies vary, but a probe or two tells me what I can expect. Of course, the netman’s position and capability is relevant to my choices or even whether I try a lob or not, as well as the server’s responses to the lobs.
Of course, this assumes I am able to have some control over the serve. Sometimes taking a further back position for return of serve does the trick.
The second serve is often the more pliable serve and often opens up short angles options as well.
Sometimes a drive at the netman, followed by my moving forwards, generates an opportunity for me.
I also avoid a preplanned reply, but having a couple of choices in mind depending on what I have been receiving is helpful, particularly after a few return probes.
My partner Jeff said the other day, in response to seeing me hit side and under spin drops shot return of serves crosscourt “You don’t like to let them play tennis do you?” Tennis can be fun when facing a puff ball server…and a drive is not the only fun one can have.
Thanks Roger and John.
I was actually meaning my first volley. So I serve volley, The returner returns and then I volley. If the return partner is very active this can be a tricky shot especially if the return is a good one. You are (say) just inside the baseline and he is closing the net down. It is in these situations I may pre plan to go line. If I try and spot the RP moving to poach and then decide line I always miss.
I totally agree on return of serve you may have an idea of what to do but the actual serve will dictate your reply. In the point it can depend. I like to set up backhand to backhand rallies and will go out of my way to manufacture this so lots of preplanning here from me.
First, congratulations on your 2011 wins.
I have a couple of comments:
1) I have found that I have to at minimum put in a few days at least every couple of weeks or so with a basket of balls to keep my serves working well. Just enables me to sort things out. I have been practicing my kick serves down on my knees with a knee pad which is good for the rainbows.
2) Sometimes I will do a practice serve, often in the beginning of a pickup matches and on key points. So far nobody has complained to me. Yes, I lose the benefit of disguise as to the kind of serve I’m planning on hitting, but I have found that it has increased the probability of hitting a good serve and usually I have gotten the benefits from it despite the lack of disguise.
Note: Paul mentioned the value of fake poaching and I would add a parallel thought that practicing the 1/2 volleys has made me more flexible on using different starting positions on the court for doubles – like an adjusted net position a few feet to the left and forward from a weak serving partner serving to the deuce side when playing weaker players who can’t drop shot, which allows me more movement flexibility to intercept their returns as I move up to the net. I can’t always coordinate with my partners, so I just take a bit of responsibility to do more creatively. For some reason, the players don’t seem to try to go after me down the line in that adjusted position. (adjusted I formation?)
Hi Rodger.
Even though it’s wet out there this morning, I know you’ll find a way to put in some high quality practice time.
I like the serving from the knees practice. Teaches you how to feel that rainbow spin.
Getting confident with 1/2 volleys will completely transform your game because you won’t worry about transitioning through no man’s land.
Brent
I’m using a poly/gut hybrid, so I’m gonna let it dry up first.
Recently I was double faulting more then usual. I know it was concerned with stress against opponent (i felt he was much better then me) not to give him easy ball. At the end I lost because I was really miserable with my serve. My question is how to calm down in this kind of situation, after you start game with double fault or even worse with 2 double faults.
Morning Ralph.
The very first game you serve in a match is all about establishing 1st serve consistency.
That means you’re not concerned about playing big serves that win points outright for you.
You’ll end up missing too many 1st serves.
Go 3/4 (height) spin 1st serve to insure consistency.
Brent
LIke the mental idea on the serve. I sorta/kinda do that, but now I will really do it!
Question! if this works for the serve, does it not work for the groundstrokes, (or is there just not
enough time?
Bye the way Happy Holidays to you and your family.
Q
Hi Q.
Absolutely this works for all strokes.
You simply go with whatever that 1st “voice” tells you to do.
There are those reflex volleys where there’s no time for a choice, but all other shots are opportunities to commit to your 1st instinct.
Thanks for the holiday cheer. Same to you and yours …
Brent
thanks for the very sound advice— i have many times fallen into the trap of changing my mind , thanks for all your efforts in trying to improve everyone,s game, regard,s walt
Hi Walter.
It’s so natural for us to 2nd guess.
Committing to playing your initial instinct for shot placement is a trained response.
Keep workin …
Brent
Brent, your tips are always very interesting…..
Hi Daniel.
Glad you’re liking the tips.
What’s your #1 match play situation that keeps being a problem?
Brent
Being decisive on the type of serve/placement is paramount in singles or doubles. My doubles partner relies on my accuracy to set him up and make him shine. I think this applies to the return as well.
Brent, thanks for reminding us about a variety of serves from the past when we actually did change our minds!
Just when we try to forget…….
Andreas
Hello Andreas.
As I mentioned to Walter above, this really is a trained (practiced) response.
The better you get at trusting that 1st “voice”, the more consistent your shotmaking becomes.
Brent
Brent, rain or not Im on the court all day today! 11-7
Hey…I found that I am opening too quickly on the serve so thanks for the last tip!!
Do you ever change if your throw isnt perfect for the serve your comitted to???
Happens to me once in a while
Hi Eric.
It’s raining here in Moraga this morning. You have an indoor court?
No, if my toss isn’t where I want to be, I’ll catch it and reload.
But my tossing technique has been refined for decades, so it’s rare when I have to catch it.
Brent
Thanks for the tip. I don’t have a lot of power on my serve but because of your tips I have developed some variety on my serve. I have developed a slice serve to go along with a topspin serve and a flat serve. I think that because of the variety, my serve has become more effective. I have had a problem totally committing to which type of serve that I will use. Because of this tip, indecision will no longer occur. Thanks again.
Hey Steve.
Good feedback. Variety is just as much an asset as pure raw power.
Pure raw power usually equates to inconsistency.
Variety usually equates to a lot of 1st serves in play.
Well done Steve.
Brent
Brent, this tip is very important and one that I too have struggled with over the years. I used to just step up to the service line and hope that I could just get the first serve in, somewhere, anywhere! Then I realized that placement, decided beforehand made a big difference.
Hi Skip.
Hope …
You’re right. That emotion doesn’t translate well to 1st serve consistency.
Totally commit to a spot before you start your service motion and then completely go for it.
Brent
Brent,
No matter how hard I try I can’t seem to catch a bad throw. In other words, I adjust my serve at the last instant. I don’t know why but I usually get in a winner but not always but maybe this is why I hit it. I guess I get embarrassed at the bad throw, I just don’t know but I wish I could adjust so that it wouldn’t bother me so much.
Hi Keith.
The tossing motion has to be a very specific motion that requires understanding and a great deal of practice.
If the tossing motion is correct, then the chances go way up that the ball ends where it should AND you end up in the ideal setup position.
Can you send me a short video clip of a couple of your serves?
Brent
Brent,
Excellent point, and a really helpful reminder. For the last couple of years I’ve been consciously choosing beforehand where I’m going to serve. I’ve noticed three things. First, I am hitting much more consistent serves…with more spin and pace. Second, my serve has become much more of a weapon. And third, from time to time hitting what I thought was an errant toss has actually opened up a new possibility for lifting my toss into the actual swingpath of a particular serve I have been attempting. All of these things have kept me interested in and believing I can continue to improve my serve.
Hi Dave.
That’s great feedback to read how you’ve been working on and eventually improving your serve.
Well done.
Brent
Brent, I absolutely love your videos. Short, to the point and packed with solid info. I also watch fuzzy yellow balls and although they are quality tips it takes Will forever to get the message across. Please don’t change your great format.
I’ve got to admit Charlie that when I was younger it used to take me a lot longer to feel I’d gotten my point across.
Once I worked with Tom Stow, who emphasized mastering the simpe fundamentals, that’s when I realized that it was all about helping my students believe in stripping away the unnecessary.
Not adding another layer but taking away the artificial.
You made my day Tom. Thanks …
Brent
Great mental tip and visualization of the shot prior to your serve. I normally think about the score or the last unforced error, rather than the serve at hand. Thanks for your advice. John
Hey John.
The visualization thing has really helped me NOT worry about the score.
Brent
Your toss should be in the same location despite going T, body or wide… correct?
Right Chris.
I try to toss in the same spot for all serves except for the high bouncing topspin or kicker which is place on top of me.
Brent
I am uneasy about trying to distract my opponent with fake poaches. As a basketball player, I faked a lot, but in tennis it seems like unsportsmanlike conduct. I notice the pros do not indulge in it. Any thoughts, Brent?
Hi David.
Fake poaching has been a part of good doubles forever.
It is NOT poor sportsmanship whatsoever.
Some players do things that are intentionally distracting that have nothing to do with a fake poach.
Those are not cool
Brent
Brent good tip. As a teaching pro for over 30 years I believe that many players lack the confidence to commit due to their inability to control their toss with their non dominant arm. Lower level players are never quite sure what the toss will be until it happens. Any suggestions?
Hi Arthur.
No magic bullet here other than to work on a specific tossing technique.
Toss from the shoulder with a straight arm trying to take out any wrist flick or elbow bend.
Brent
Hi Brent,
I was playing this morning and visualized each serve (1st and2nd) before the toss and it helped with my consistency and accuracy. The other big thing lately with my serve is getting a good pronation/snap to keep the ball in. I was focusing on that on my 2nd topspin serve but wasn’t doing it much on my 1st flat and was carrying everything long and then started focusing on that and raised the consistency. Jim McLennan just had a short thing about the “Sampras Snap” which is great.
Hi Andrew.
Jim always has great suggestions.
Brent
Thanks for that tip on the last bounce of the ball. My experience is that staying focused on where I want to hit actually helps with placing the toss. If the toss is errant, I am more likely to pull it back rather than just swinging at it.
Harold
Morning Harold.
Well done on NOT going after a lousy toss.
You can always re-load. Just make sure you don’t consider prior to starting your tossing motion that it might not be a good one.
Positive visualization for sure.
Brent
What a great dialogue across so many topics. Fascinating to see how the serve stuff plays out among so many in the webtennis community. And the insights into returns are superb.
Though I’ll concede my tossing motion has its funky qualities — Brent has pointed out how I don’t raise my tossing arm that high — I will say that my toss behaves pretty well and since teaching myself a spin serve at age 12 I have always known where I want the serve to go prior to the toss.
- A teacher I had at a young age made a big deal of using the first two fingers and making sure the ball didn’t spin.
One thing that helps is that since I’m a lefty the whole aspect of toss and motion get to start off working naturally. What do I mean by that? Well consider that the natural lefty service motion goes left to right across the body and the basic slice will take the ball to an opponent’s backhand. This is always huge but was MASSIVELY significant when I was learning to play on fast hardcourts in the ’70s against one-handed backhands. At the recreational level, it was pretty rare as a netrusher to come up against a one-hander with a dipping backhand return. And so having a service motion that naturally carried to that weak spot made it easy to get command of the toss.
On the other hand, I see how righties need to contort a bit differently to pop the serve into the backhand. Certainly it can be learned, but it’s not as natural-instantly learnable as the slice. And so there are such matters as coordinating the body, motion and toss. There’s a very good player at the club where Brent and I play who is a great volleyer but his toss wanders so often I feel like saying “nice get” when he makes contact.
But while so many decisions are based on reacting to the ball, what’s great about the serve is that we are in control of time and desired placement. I’m not the first to compare it to a pitcher on the mound. My favorite image: Bob Gibson — one nasty hurler.
Always great feedback and comments from you JD.
Thanks.
Hoping to post this afternoon our interview from the other day on your new and improved slice forehand approach.
Brent
As we close out this year Brent and Jim M., I’m feeling a sense of vindication and payback, so yes, thanks for the coaching and guidance. Sorry for saying that, kind of, but I must admit to feeling the joy of the humiliation and embarrassment of many of my fellow players that has come together progressively this year, but in particular the last few months in spades.
“L”, “H”, “W”, “J”, “M”, etc. were among a large group of “the 3.5 and 4.0 players” to be looked up to 5 years ago when I was 2.5 beginner at “N” and “A” tennis courts, but whose racquets did not have the final word.
Now I’m not thinking I’m so wonderful because I’m not, but if one studies hard and deliberatively practices – well, you can improve, lots and lots, even if you are an “older” player despite the attitude, bullying, slights, and put downs from the “wonderful players.”
Enough said and payback is sweet.
For me, tennis is about reacting to my opponent’s position even on the 1st serve. Is he favoring the middle or corner? If so, go where he isn’t. Walking up to the baseline with placement in mind limits your options? Maybe in higher levels of tennis opponents get better about not giving away return position… but not the people I play.
Good info Brent, I noticed several years ago I sometimes didn’t take enough time between serves because I was mad I missed my first serve. I corrected that by bouncing the ball 4 times before my first serve and 3 before the second. I do the same routine every time. Similar to putting in golf. Keeps other thoughts from entering the mind.Keep up the good info. V
Brent, thanks for providing your brilliant videos, they are actually very educational to me and very interesting as well. I’m a starting tennis player and it’s good to follow a professional from the very start.