This is far and away one of the most common mistakes I see the returner’s partner make.
And it really is a killer when your partner is returning serve and plays a tough low cross court return of serve directly to the incoming server’s feet.
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I agree the net person (Mike) has to be on top of the net to cut down the angles. It appears Mike is worrying about a lob and that is why he is hanging back a little. The serve returner needs to be in position to handle any lobs and any ground strokes to the left of the net strap. The alley would be a tough shot for the 1st volleyer so Mike should be able to slide a little to the left and take away the middle. If the 1st volleyer hits a winner down the alley, just applaud him. You can only cover 80% of the court so you have to play per centages.
Morning Tim.
Mike doesn’t need to be concerned about a lob, Steve, the returner, can cover that for Mike.
By moving forward up inside the service line after Steve’s return, Mike’s presence will cause unforced errors from time to time…
Brent
Hi Brent, I think it’s as simple as telling the receivers partner to angle his body towards the net player before the serve, and closely keep his eye on the servers partner. IF it’s a good return than he can move forward as you talk about, but if it’s a weak return then he needs to stay towards the service line play defense, and try to cover the hole. Have a great day.
Hey Rich.
That’s a good thing for sure, to be facing Gil during the return of serve, but once that return is past Gil and down to low to the server, Carlos, Mike’s got to take over in terms of his presence.
A fake poach in this case will yield huge dividends …
I’m not convinced that he can do a lot more defending from the service line off of a weak return than from being aggressive with moving inside the service line asap.
Even if Mike errors on moving up too soon, I’d rather have that than this situation we see in the video.
Brent
Brent
Thanks for emphasizing this play. So many times good service returns are wasted because the returners partner is “guarding” the line.
Right Roscoe.
Guarding the alley is guarding a tiny percentage of the court.
If they, the server, goes up the alley from time to time and wins the point, I don’t care, but to guard that area all of the time is giving away the rest of the court and making that great return of serve a whole lot easier to handle.
Brent
Brent, you nailed this one. You see it all the time in 4.0 doubles. The rationale they give is ‘I move with the ball’ or ‘got to defend the lob’. I reiterate that the ball is down at the players feet and either of those choices would be extremely difficult, and unlikely. He’ll probably block it back over the middle nearly all the time I tell them, but they still won’t close when the opponent is playing off his shoe tops. To them, moving with the ball trumps the logic to close the net .
Brent, you nailed this one. You see it all the time in 4.0 doubles. The rationale they give is ‘I move with the ball’ or ‘got to defend the lob’. I reiterate that the ball is down at the players feet and either of those choices would be extremely difficult, and unlikely. He’ll probably block it back over the middle nearly all the time I tell them, but they still won’t close when the opponent is playing off his shoe tops. To them, moving with the ball trumps the logic to close the net .
Mike also appears to not know how wide the serve took his partner, which creates a huge alley. I’ve been back at the fence returning serve when my partner at the net refuses to move over for a short ball, saying it’s your side, never knowing how far off the court I was. So this is an additional error from Mike here.
Hey Miguel.
You’re right, this happens ALL of the time at just about every skill level, both with helping out with that out wide serve and the return played down to the feet of the server.
So, Mike, we’re not picking on you my man because I see this court positioning mistake every time I watch doubles.
Brent
Like so many of us, RP is worried about defending what the server might do wit the return, not forcing him to try to do something that he can’t do in the situation. (Actually, Federer pulled off one of those right down the line BH half volleys against Raonic in the AO. And Raonic was standing just a step closer than where RP is here.) But where he is standing the geometry is all against him–both shots, down the middle and down the line, are too far away. The best play, once he picks up the flight of the return in his peripheral vision is to jam the server straight on and react when he sees the angle of the server’s racket. Up much closer he has a much better chance of cutting it off — as it turns out he would have been able to pivot to his BH and take one step to put that ball away.
Good feedback Robert.
Another reason some players hang back on that service line is simple fear or zero confidence in their volleys.
The ONLY way to improve upon that is simply do it – move up, take charge, and miss a couple as you quickly realize, dang, I can do this …
Brent
I agree with your comments about the RP’s positioning at the net but what I also saw was the Returner after hitting the return could have moved more quickly up to the center and ” squeezed ” toward the middle and * possibly could have gotten a racket on the return ?.
Always look forward to your ” WTRS ” segments .Thanks !
Hey Jim.
Steve hit a nice angle return of serve off of on out wide serve, so their is possible angle now available for the server, Carlos, to work with back to Steve.
Steve has to cover that possibility much more so than covering the middle in this situation.
If Steve is looking middle, then yes, but in this case, Mike has to take away most of the middle by simply moving forward a couple of steps.
Brent
Agree w your comments Brent
Frustrating if you don’t work as a team…
We try to work on having net man returner side step inside service box, and also to look to server side as soon as serve is seen as “in”.
If return is weak, sitting behind the line doesn’t improve our odds anyway.
The other thing I try o improve on as net man is moving in directly in line toward server..so I cut down max angle on his next shot…
Best thing you mentioned Kirk was “If return is weak, sitting behind the service line doesn’t improve our odds anyway”.
So true, and this is where lots of players make an excuse for not moving up inside their service line – I gotta defend a possible return that goes back to the server’s net partner.
The reality is just what Kirk mentioned – you can’t really that much more from the service line to defend …
Brent
Brent, these “right shot” clips are helpful. Have you considered compiling a whole series of these to sell as an instructional video? I’d be interested in buying that. Only high level players, though. I wouldn’t want to see stoke technique mistakes from lower level players, just choice of shot mistakes or positioning mistakes in doubles that even high level players make. Also, I like to see the point run through beginning to end in regular speed. Stopping and starting or running in slow motion doesn’t give me a good sense of the situation. For me it’d be better to show the whole point at regular speed, then back up and analyze by stopping and starting. But don’t dwell too long on the analysis. That gets tedious and is unnecessary.
Thanks for the feedback Wayne.
Sure, a series of these types of analysis points packaged as a course is possible.
Brent
I completely agree with Wayne’s comment concerning how the point is shown. Show the entire sequence first. Comment on what was done wrong, then show it again in regular speed. Finally, slow it down and show it a third time. If you have one point to make, that should be sufficient. Only if you are planning on making multiple points do I see the benefit of stopping and rewinding. So, for this one, you would rewind if you also wanted to discuss offensive or defensive options in addition to court positioning of the net guy. Otherwise, you’re done.
Aye aye Captain …
Got it.
B-
Very instructive video with great play by 3 of the guys. Yeah, it irks me when my partner hangs out at the service line and leaves the big gap in the middle for what happens here. But I have some sympathy for Mike too. He can’t afford to leave his starting position until he sees that the return is going to get past the server’s partner. And that guy looks like a threat until the last instant. Then, the dream return is angled so sharply that it bounces well in front of the service line on the other side. Then, the server is all over it with a (near) half volley. So Mike really didn’t have much time to recognize and execute the proper move forward. (Of course, that doesn’t excuse that his move, when he finally made it, was toward the alley.) Brent, what do you recommend that the returner’s partner key on in this situation to start his move forward? I have always thought that it is seeing the ball go past the server’s partner. Is there a better key than that?
Hey Patrick.
I’m going to go against the common teaching theory of don’t look back at your partner as they return of serve.
Unless I’m playing with a partner who loves to crush their return of serve (which leaves me out of any possible movement opportunity as either a fake poach or a poach), and / or we’re playing against the mad poacher is going just about all of the time, I watch to see what my partner does with their return of serve.
If I’ve got the big power returner or up against the crazy poacher, then I have to key on that opposite net player to see if I’ll be defending, but …
Other than that, I get more information from taking a quick peek at my partner in terms of the type of return they’re playing and the direction of that return.
I feel I’m way more in tune with the timing of the play as opposed to just having to read the server’s partner’s reaction to the return of serve.
My job is first and foremost to take advantage of the return of serve which in reality is going to be played away from the net player and back to the server.
That’s the returner’s job – play the return of serve away from that opposing net player and try to set me up, the returner’s partner.
We’re working together as a team, and I get more info sooner by peeking at my partner’s return than seeing how the server’s partner reacts …
Yeah, all of that goes against what is more easily taught out there, but hey, I want to know if that return of serve is going cross court immediately so that I can move up and take charge of the server’s next shot.
Brent
Brent, Thanks for that. I have been well indoctrinated to focus on the server’s partner for the news flash about where the return is going, but your reply that it is a better idea to take a peak at what is happening back there is pretty convincing. Often I am helping out on the service line call anyway. And honestly, the game seldom goes fast enough that one does not have time to refocus on the net guy, unless he is a gonzo poacher. But if the ball goes back to where he is ready to handle it, it pretty much does not matter where you are, unless you have hands like Stepanek..
Right …
Way too often I see the returner’s partner think their job is too wait for the ball to come to them.
As Mike does in this video, or even if the partner moves up inside the service line, it becomes a static position of just waiting for something to happen.
The server’s partner and the returner’s partner MUST take charge of the point, not the other way around.
The server’s job and returner’s job are to simply lay the ball in front of their partner and allow that partner to show movement – poach, fake poach, or an early fake and then go.
It is never and stand there and see what happens deal …
Brent
Amen Brent! All the poaching/fake poaching can set up many points later in the match, especially against opponents who are not familiar with your game. Pressure, pressure, and more pressure!
Thanks, Brent. I appreciate getting your different take on this. I’ll try it out and see how it goes.
Excellent Patrick.
Try it out and then get back here with some feedback.
Thanks in advance ….
Brent
Great stuff, Brent. Once again, so much of what you show speaks to the importance of how we manage our energy and engagement every minute we’re on the court whether we’re hitting it or not. So many doubles players are reformed singles players who even in singles were at heart mostly reactive. Seeing that translate into doubles is even more sad. The way you show effective court position is superb.
Thanks JD.
We should work together as a frickin team out there – 2 guys on the same page.
This point clearly shows how 2 players aren’t working together.
Brent
Solid advice Brent. Mike made another error which threw off his timing to cover the crosscourt return—he looked back at the returner. That half second decreases his concentration.
Hey Ron.
I respectfully disagree an the looking back thing.
Read my response to Patrick directly above.
Brent
Brilliant and insightful as always!
Morning Rob.
Glad you liked this one …
Brent
Good stuff! I agree with Wayne. You ought to put together a video exclusively dealing with doubles strategy and game situations. This is exactly what we encounter in Combo competition. We try to convince our lower level player to become more aggressive at the net and by doing so he will cut off many of the hitting angles our opponents have available to them.
Hey Chuck.
OK, got it. Sounds like a new course!
The Combo leagues really present a fascinating dynamic – how the stronger player can help set up the lesser rated player, and how that lesser rated player needs to recognize the setup and take advantage.
Great feedback.
Brent
good stuff. would like to see the point played out then slow down and analize. the returner’s partner did not react to returner’s postion creating too much of a gap between them. He should moved up and center more to close the gap and at the same time eliminate the easiest choice by the server. The idea is to cover 2/3 of court and only give the opponent the lowest percentage choices. in this case that would be down the line and a lob. i love the chess game of doubles; positioning and trying to entice your opponent into making unwise and low percentage shots.
Hey Steve.
OK, got it, I’ll make sure in future episodes that there’s more replays of the point in real time.
Thanks for your feedback.
Brent
Great stuff Brent! Love the slowing down of the action, and your analysis of various options is spot on. Watched a lot of your videos on YouTube, and they are always very helpful. I am a 3.5 player who doesn’t have much time to practice. I’m able to get by on just being a better athlete than my opponents at this level, but want to take the next step. Any suggestions?
Morning Chuck.
Glad you liked this video and post.
Really hard for me to tell you that you can get much better without craving out more regular court time.
You need solid but very simple instruction of the stroke and strategy fundamentals, court time to tinker, fitness improvement (your natural athletic ability will get you only so far), and then being fearless to not worry about losing a few matches as you’re working through the learning curve …
For now Chuck – find one more day per week when you can get out on the tennis court.
Brent
Great Right shot…need to work this in. Also appreciate this variance on 1st vs 2nd serve positioning, which is a new piece for me. Yeah, lets clean this up. Made a couple of great lob crosscourt volleys today, a new shot for me – won the points out right – really devastating – just practiced it with the ball machine a few times and it fit right in. Some of these new ideas actually work in fairly easy once you are building the right habits. Am also mixing in a few stick volleys.
Note: your concept of moving to the next shot position has the indirect benefit of developing good footwork vs thinking in terms of simply completing the shot and then standing around. Not suggesting to not complete the shot, but to suggest to complete the shot and then move to another position.
RS – good focused feedback as usual from you.
Right, where’s the next best court position?
Brent
Generally, in front of me and splitting the angles, usefully adjusted for anticipation as they go to strike the ball.
This brings up a question. When my partner is serving, I stand about 1/3 inside the service box line and then take a step or two in once I hear my partner hits his serve. Do you recommend something different if my partner’s 2nd serve is weak?
I tend to stay up at the net as much as possible, even when they try to push me off the net. I will tend to back up if I’m crosscourt to the ball or the netman has an overhand smash off a short shot by my partner.
That is another reason I like this lesson.
RS – when your partner plays a weak 2nd serve, it’s even MORE important for you to show movement (fake poach) as the returner gets setup to play their return.
As the server’s partner, you can really slow down their returner’s swing IF you show a great fake poach.
When you slow down that returner’s swing speed b/c of your movement’s visual distraction, you’ve just helped out your serving partner …
Brent
I used your 1st/2nd return of serve at the net suggestions today. I was very happy to pick up on another aspect of doubles movement. Thanks
Rodger,
Another aspect of doubles movement – which is …?
Brent
Not lagging around on the service line but again moving forward.
In other words, examining movement under different conditions. What seems obvious after you point it out, seems less obvious when we are applying, right or wrongly, some of what one learns as we go foward with out learning.
Often the advice, for example, is to stand in a certain position to do things like receive serve, when your partner is receiving serve, when I am serving. As we go, we start learning alternatives, but often fail to see our own self-imposed limitations for all the various pieces.